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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 02:38 pm |
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My Pismo Daystar G4/550 upgrade will usually not start up unless the A/C adapter is plugged in. I'm running OSX Panther. This problem seems to have developed after the upgrade, but the computer was new to me just before the upgrade, so it might be a quirk that I am not familiar with.
The startup usually hangs on a blank grey screen, or sometimes when the power adapter is plugged in I get a message that I have to retart the computer. At that point (with the adapter plugged in) it will restart in Safe Mode, and I repair the disk permissions, and it may or may not start up without the adapter, but ultimately it reverts to not starting.
Could this be something like a pram battery on the motherboard or is it likely to be a software problem? I discounted a battery problem because it seems to be intermittent, but it does seem to be worse now than it was in 2004 when the upgrade was done.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Smitty
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 03:39 am |
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Hi Smitty,
This sounds like either a bad battery or bad PMU battery. Batteries can have intermittent cells which can create havic within the PMU (Power Management Unit), causing all types of issues.
To check that the PMU battery is good. Just set your date, and disable the auto setting of the date. Disonnect the main battery (eject it), shut down and disconnect the AC. Wait 20 minutes. Reconnect the AC, and boot. If the date is lost, then you have a problem PMU battery. We can replace., or you can try a PMU Reset as outlined below then test again after 4 hours on AC power.
To reset the PMU, purge the PMU, unplug the AC and main battery. Hit the reset button in the back of unit (by the modem connector, marked by a triangle). You will need a pen to depress. Press once and wait 10 seconds. Then boot and let it charge for about 4 hours. You can use it during this period.
After 4 hours on AC, try the PMU test again. If it holds the date, then you need to reset the PMU by following the same procedure as the purge above (when the PMU battery is dead, the reset does a purge, clearing the PMU, when the battery has juce, it does a reset, writing info into the PMU).
You may find at this point that everything is great.
If the PMU was okay in the original test, then you may have a bad main battery. Try removing the battery, resetting the PMU and running without the main battery. See if the problem continues.
Other than that, you could have a bad PMU, or problem RAM.
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 03:29 pm |
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Thanks Gary. That's a very thorough answer, but I didn't get through all the procedures.
On the first test, the machine did not hold the date/time and the PMU battery appears to be bad.
But, I was just running the reset/purge/recharge procedure with the main battery out and only the a/c adapter plugged in and the machine suddenly quit after about an hour. I wonder if this puts another wrinkle in the problem...
I have a Madsonline a/c adapter that the previous owner used, and it has recently appeared to be intermittent, so a few days ago I starting using the original yo-yo shaped adapter that came with the machine. Now I'm wondering if the adapter was really bad or if a problem other than the PMU battery could be causing some weirdness with the power management rather than just the startup issues. Is any of the PMU or PRAM hardware changed in the G4 upgrade, or is there firmware that I should check?
Either way, I think that replacing the PMU battery is the best place to start troubleshooting. Is the Daystar " 922-3829 battery the proper part for this application? I would prefer to install it myself rather than have to ship the machine.
I have restarted the reset/recharge procedure, so if the machine keeps running this time, maybe that will yield more information.
Thanks,
Smitty
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 08:40 pm |
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Yes, the correct link for the battery is below. We charge the batteries before shipment, so it may take an extra day before shipping.
http://daystar-store.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=87
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2006 06:59 pm |
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Gary,
Thanks for the quick and accurate help.
I ordered and replaced the PMU battery and all is well. I reset the PMU after the install, and it's been starting up without the ac adapter for a couple of days now.
So, I'm back to being portable again...
BTW, shipping the PMU battery charged is a terrific idea. It really simplified the process for me. Daystar is definitely the "go to guys" for customer service.
Thanks again,
Smitty
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2006 07:47 pm |
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Thanks, we try 
Tell a friend!
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 04:51 pm |
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Well, I guess I spoke too soon. It appears that the PMU battery is not charging, because after the second day, the problem has returned. The grey screen hangs, or the Apple screen hangs and the pinwheel freezes or I get a "You must restart your computer" message. Then when I do get it started the date is wrong...
I did all the resets, but it does not seem to stick. The main battery is holding a charge quite well, but I did notice that my backup main battery is not holding a charge well at all (it's the original and is quite probably kaput).
I really don't want to buy a new main battery if there is some other software or hardware problem that might be causing this.
Are there any further ideas?
I'm going to browse through macfixit.com, because I seem to remember a discussion there about startup problems when I was researching the G4 upgrade.
Thanks,
Smitty
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 10:13 pm |
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Hi Smitty,
Well, the main battery most likely has a bad cell or some type of internal short, which is causing confusion to the PMU as well. We see about 30 PowerBook G3 systems a week. Bad batteries reak havoc.
If you don't want to get a new main battery, then I suggest, since the old battery doesn't hold a charge anyhow, either remove it, or eject and use snips to remove the connector from the end. At least that way, it won't be creating the PMU issues. Once you have the main battery disconnected. Reset the PMU and you should be good to go.
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 29th, 2006 12:46 pm |
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Thanks Gary,
Though I did not want to buy a new main battery if there was another option, the system boots and runs without it, so I guess I will have to bite the bullet. Your 7200 L/I looks like a good choice - especially for the long plane rides...
I have discovered, however, that the ac power connector is also loose on the back of the machine, so I'm certain that that will have to be repaired or replaced as well. A solder joint must have popped. Is it the sound/AC card that the power adapter plugs into?
I want to get all the parts I need before I tear it down.
Thanks again,
Smitty
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Sun Jan 29th, 2006 01:59 pm |
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Yes, the ac port on the sound / ac card tends to break at the solder joint. it is difficult to change, since you have to completely remove the top case, and even then (without removing some additional peices) you need to twist it out, which can bend pins if you aren't careful.
But, if you are removing, you can just take it to a local electronics repair shop for resoldering. Suggest that thay also connect a wire from the pad to the stands a well. That way, even if it breaks loose again, you'll still have contact. If handled correctly the wire also helps secure the joint.
The 7200 Battery is an excellent choice. We actually pre-cycle these and test for full capcity before shipment (a Daystar Exclusive). Worldwide, about 30% of the high-capacity batteries manufactured aren't able to reach their max capacity. Daystar only ships unit that have been proven to work correctly.
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2006 03:10 pm |
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Oops...
My father always taught me that if something isn't working you should do as much as you can to fix it yourself. At best, he thought, you will learn something and maybe save some money, and at worst you can always take it to the repair shop in a box.
I may need a box.
I pulled the sound/ac card and resoldered the ac connector (one leg was loose) and reassembled everything, but there was no sign of life at all. Battery, ac cord, etc. - not a peep. So, I unplugged the ac adapter and figured I'd get some sleep and hit it again this morning. But this morning I noticed that the battery was almost totally discharged (I left it in), and when I pulled the keyboard the heat sink was very, very hot. The system was not on - no fan, no hard drive, etc. This can't be good.
Anyway, I obviously have screwed something up, and I am pulling it apart again to check the connections, etc. Is there anything I should be looking for before I send it to you? I don't want to install a new sound/ac card myself if I have caused another problem, but for Dad's sake I'd like to have another shot at the old one....
Thanks,
SmittyLast edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2006 04:01 pm by Filmsmith
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Gary
Administrator
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2006 06:15 pm |
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Well, Good Luck.
You can enter a service order at:
http://MacPowerBookService.com
Check that you didn't bend any pins getting the sound card back in. When you put it back together, hit the PMU reset one time, before trying to startup.
Gary
____________________
Gary Dailey
Daystar Technology
http://Daystar-Tech.com, http://Daystar-Store.com
email: gary@daystartechnology.com, chat: garydailey@mac.com
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Filmsmith
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2006 01:44 pm |
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Thanks Gary, but it's DOA. Nothing helps.
I'm shipping it to you today.
Smitty
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